Monday, September 22, 2008

Shooter's Daddy

Here is Shooter's daddy...
They were identical when Shooter was born...
Same color, same face marking. Shooter was just a little mini-me of his daddy.

Still a mini-me in build though...

That neck-tie in at the shoulder is not very good on the stud and he sure enough put the same tie-in on this colt. Asking for outside opinions on this...how much would that affect you if you were looking at buying this colt? Is this something that would totally put you off or would you look more at what you wanted to do with him as a performance horse in the future?

I know you can't really see his legs in this photo, but he is super correct. He travels with a level headset and is athletic enough to pick up a lope from a standstill. One second he is standing there and the next he is loping off. In person, you have to study his neck a bit to realize that it is the tie-in that sort of disturbs his eye-appeal.

Honest opinions are welcomed!! You will not hurt my feelings in any way, because Shooter isn't for sale, but if this tie-in ends up being a consistent trait by the stud, we will have to seriously evaluate how and when we can market his colts. Having to wait until they are 3-4y/o will seriously reduce the number of mares we breed to him each year. The max number we breed is 3 anyway, but not being able to market them effectively for another 5 years would mean that we would have 12 more head on the ground before we could hope to see any sort of a return. That doesn't work if you can't move any of them at a younger age.

If bloodlines are important to you...of course they are if you are looking at a performance horse-LOL-here is Pistol's pedigree...Fast Pistol 045. He is 37% Oklahoma Star bred(13 crosses in there). The pedigree specialist who bred him designed his pedigree to cross on King and Leo bred mares. Run and Cow!!

10 comments:

Callie said...

Call me an ignoramous, but I have a question. What do you mean by "neck-tie"? I think he looks pretty damned good.

Paige said...

He is a little wonky where he ties in--but I don't like to make decisions on that alone, on a young one like that. Seeing that it is the same as his dad's (which is hard to tell from that pic, but I will take your word for it), might convince me that it will stay that way. I would watch how he moves more than his neck

What is the sire's registered name? I love pedigrees, so I look everyone up.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Callie-It's the point where his neck ties into his shoulder. Ideally, a horse should tie in approximately at the point of his shoulder. Shooter and his daddy, Pistol tie in lower than that. More toward the chest floor. This is mostly asthetic, but a horse that ties in too deep and coarse can have restricted movement in their shoulders. They can't physically get as much extension when they travel and it can make them choppy movers on the front end. I haven't noticed that this is the case with either Shooter or Pistol. They are not extreme cases, just enough that they probably wouldn't win a lot at Halter.;)

Strangely enough, this has become somewhat of a desired look in a lot of the Western Pleasure horses today. Mostly because it is also associated with a level neck set-making it easier for pleasure horses to travel with their heads at or below the withers(less head-set training). Since most of these horses don't move with a lot of extension the lack of shoulder mobility doesn't really affect them.

Paige-The stud's name is Fast Pistol 045. If you click on his name in the post, I linked it to all breed pedigree. I'm a bloodlines fanatic too. Since you like foundation bloodlines like I do, I think you will like this guy's breeding.

Andrea said...

It is funny that you said it's a popular trait in the WP world, because I was thinking he looked like he would make a nice WP hoese. Now with all that cow and speed in him he might be a little too fast, but I think it will make him a balanced loper. I like his neck. But I like my WP horses!! LOL!! He still is one fine horse!!

Train Wreck said...

Dang you ARE a Cowgirl!! I think his confirmation is great! I love everything about him! He looks like a runner! I just can't believe how big he is! He will be a big ol boy! I love that chocolate color too! Will you leave him a Stud? My train has foundation blood in him also. I can't tell you exactly because we have yet to get his papers! Argh! My husband cousin has them still!

Melanie said...

BEC-
It's funny that you mentioned his neck/shoulder tie-in, because I have always thought that he looked like a good WP prospect, even though I know that you breed for speed and cow. Gosh...I sound like a broken record, don't I???

I think that Shooter may even be more correct than his daddy, but it is hard to tell from the picture, because his pop's has his head turned, so it somewhat distorts the view.

My opinion? If he looks this good, this young, he is going to look like a million bucks when he is a 3-4 year old.

Good job with your breeding there, BEC!! :)

Saddle Mountain Rider said...

I like the look of the colt - as far as the total package. The tie-in is something i have been taught is important in the overall conformation because of how it affects the horse's movement. But i can see how wp horse people would favor it. So, i would judge the colt by how he moved, which, is probably what we had better do anyway. I think he is a handsome lad.

kdwhorses said...

That tie-in doesn't bother me at all! I look at alot of other things, I agree with everyone else he looks better than his Dad on that aspect! I can't wait to see him as a 3-4 year old! His Daddy is built the way I like! You can tell he is speed! I like that in a horse. Shooter is a fine looking colt and I would love to own him! Great job!

Vaquerogirl said...

The tie in wouldn't bother me either- In WP you'd want him to drive up and under anyway, so his head set shouldn't be any problem. Plus if you use him for anything else,(except halter) you'd want his head to be up to see where he was going. I usually judge a horse from the feet up anyway. Is he a straight traveller? Is he flat kneed? Can he lift his shoulder? Can he flex at he poll and throat? All more inportant that tie in (unless it is extreme!)
I love all the old foundation horses you put up and the breeding rundowns! Thanks!

Holly said...

I noticed the tie in right away, especially since I had been looking at the studs listed above. For comparison sake look at the colt then look at The Invester. Although angle could have something to do with it, there is still a notable diff in the lower tie in of the colt. And then look at ZCC. He .also. has a low tie in. And look at how well he did in the ring, as well as what he produced.

That said, it would depend on what he's going to be used for. Can he reach under himself going forward? Can he get his hindend under him and sit down if you need it? Can he flex if necessary?

If you are going to geld him, doesn't matter. If you are going to use him as a stud, I think it might count against him.

I am all about patience to see what they grow up like. I doubt he will out grow this trait, but there isn't a perfect horse anywhere and if he is to be a "using" horse, there are things on the scale of 1-10 that would certainly rate higher than where his neck ties in.